After a short introduction by the moderator Nicole de Boer (Communication, Holland High Tech), the floor was first given to the German side of the panel and then to the Dutch panel members. This panel discussion will cover the following topics:

• Female role models
• Unconscious bias
• A diverse field of work
• Inclusion as a condition
• Male allies

Lack of visible female role models

Alexandrea Swanson (Senior Manager Digitization & Innovation Bundesverband der Deutschen Industrie e.V. (BDI) and co-director #SheTransformsIT) kicked off the discussion. ''Currently, the German high-tech industry consists of approximately 17% women. This is a number that has remained relatively stable for decades, sometimes rising to 19% or dropping to 15%. In general, the trend is unfortunately 17%. When it comes to female leaders in these positions, it is a smaller percentage. Is there much interest in involving women in technology? More than 55% of companies say that without women the technological future is not possible. Women are simply crucial to a technological future. However, in Germany we don't seem to get women, but also girls, interested in the industry, this is a huge problem. We see that only one in 7 applicants in IT is a woman. And I think one possible reason I'd like to highlight is the lack of visible female role models," said Alexandrea.

Marc Hasselaar (Head of the European Markets Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs) also says that the lack of female role models is a point of attention in the Netherlands. “In my ministry, we focus on encouraging female entrepreneurs to become internationally active. But research has taught us that women entrepreneurs face additional barriers. This mainly concerns access to financing, networks and knowledge. Our government is working to remove these barriers. This calls for important role models. The lack of female role models has been identified as one of the biggest obstacles for women to reach their full potential. We need to break down negative stereotypes and highlight success stories."

Helen Kardan (Senior Manager Key Supplier Account at ASML | Board Member & Startup Advisor | Inspiring50 Deep Tech Winner 2021 ASML, FME figurehead Diversity & Inclusion) adds to the importance of role models: ''You see it, you believe it. You should have role models of all shapes and sizes. When we talk about role models, we usually talk about top scientists and high achievers. But I think we need role models from different backgrounds. When women take on the role of caretaker and gaps open up in their careers, they regress enormously in the scientific or high-tech world. Because the inventions and innovations simply go too fast. So for women who want to come back, we need role models and examples that show that it is possible."

The unconscious bias must disappear

Jacquelien Scherpen (Prof. Dr. Ir. Faculty of Science and Engineering, University of Groningen, board member Top Team Holland High Tech, winner Prince Friso Ingenieursprijs 2023) talks about her insights and experiences as a professor. ''In the Netherlands it is known that many teachers have unconscious biases. There was a recent study in the Netherlands which states that on the advice of secondary schools, boys receive 50% more advice with the same results on maths and physics and are advised to choose a technology direction compared to girls. There is already a strong bias. And it's not a conscious bias, it's the way the teachers think about the female students. And when you go to higher education, I see that a lot too. Girls say they don't think they can do things 'just because'. In childcare we should therefore already start rejecting unconscious prejudices, but parents are of course also part of the problem. I think it can help to start with technique lessons and role models in primary school. The role models are then female teachers who teach technical subjects.''

The importance of a diverse field of work

Sarah Bäumchen (member of the Board of Directors of the Verband der Elektro- und Digitalindustrie (ZVEI)) illustrates her insights as follows: ''We need a lot more women in the industry. The number of female students taking basic courses is 35%. That is something to look forward to. However, it is very unfortunate that we are losing many women during their studies and in the run-up to their first job: after five years of employment, only 56% of women continue to work in the high-tech industry. This is definitely something we need to look into. We need to ask why women do that. This is of course something we in the German industry are very keen to change, because it's so important to have a diverse field."

Marc Hendrikse: ''Better performance through a better balance''

“There are several reasons why we need more women in tech. Firstly, it is generally known that companies and organizations perform better when there is a better balance between men and women in the organization. Second, we as high-tech companies work on solutions to global challenges. If you only have men in the organization, they also come up with a solution for men. In medical companies, for example, it is very important that you also look at those solutions from the female perspective. Thirdly, we simply don't have enough people in the technical industry and the people we miss are the women, says Marc Hendrike (Figurehead, Holland High Tech).''

Inclusion is a condition

Panel moderator Nicole de Boer raises the following statement and question:

''Inclusion is a prerequisite for attracting and retaining women in industry and education. When you attract women how do you keep them in the industry?"

Tanja Maass (Director of Festo's subsidiary Resolto Informatik GmbH) indicates that she would go very far when it comes to inclusion: ''You have to stimulate employees, including men, to make it happen. And inclusion is not only wanting to be inclusive but also acting accordingly. The top management in companies must define what inclusion means to them. And then also link KPIs to it.''

Eva van der Boom (Coordinator Human Capital Holland High Tech and industry and policy advisor education and labor market at FME) argues the statement as follows: ''Many men do not recognize the full potential of women and also exclude them in social gatherings. When this piles up, the woman rightly feels out of place in the company. In the Netherlands, this is the main reason for women to quit technical jobs. So I think steps of different levels are important. From the policies of companies, but also male allies who stand up for women are important.''

Male allies

Nadine Herrwerth (CEO TWTG) about allies: ''I think allies are needed at work, but also at home. It is not necessary for the woman to stay at home, men must also play their part. They must be able to say that they are staying at home because, for example, the woman's career is a leading career for the family. In doing so, it is important not to view traditional role models as ones to be emulated year after year and generation after generation.”

Helen Kardan says: ''What we want to focus more and more on is sponsorship in the form of male allies. For example, ASML has an 80% male population. So if you look at a woman's career path at ASML. You hire them, you want to keep them, promote them and make them successful."

Male allies should act as a catalyst that helps women shine, says Helen Kardan.